these were intact cultures with room for non-believers, whereas, for our purposes, we are strictly reviving our religions, and the culture will follow after. We simply have a different demographic makeup. Americans don’t have the investment in anything like an Althing culture, Gebo is practically nonexistant as a feature of regular life here, and that is with contracts and contractual reinforcement. I think there’s room for non-believers in our culture, but there’s also a reason I don’t invite them to my Northern Tradition Working Group or Study Group. These are polytheist religious groups. [Emphasis, and double-spaces after periods, in the original.]
What are we reviving?
A magical mindset where the spirits of stone and stream and tree are everywhere, where there really is a tomten in the corner, and where the birds sometimes fly in a particular direction because the Gods want to tell us something.
We are creating a subculture within the larger host culture, somewhat more isolated and self-sufficient than the norm. We do embrace the concept of the Germanic gift-cycle, and we really do embrace the Germanic ideals of honor and courage, and practice all those things and more among ourselves, even if the larger host-society does not. We can still invest in those things, and bring up our children with those ideals, even if the broader culture does not.
Note that this is not to say that we are completely isolated and off the grid (although some Heathen groups do tend more in that direction than others). I still watch television, and I'm still looking forward to the next Star Wars movie (no, seriously, I already have tickets for the premier of Episode VII), and I still have a full-time job that doesn't involve blacksmithing. But at the same time, we can live in the broader culture and still retain those aspects of our own subculture that define us as Heathens. We're not the only religious minority to do so, and it's certainly not impossible.
Just because we don't live in a Germanic "honor culture" doesn't mean that we can't embrace such a thing ourselves, and live by it. In a lot of ways, that's why we're so baffled by, and often hostile to, today's über-Politically Correct culture, with its victim mentality, "microagressions", and expectation that any offense is something that should be dealt with by getting someone from the outside to either prevent or punish the transgression. It's just not how we think. It's not our culture.
And I daresay the reason the atheists still want to count themselves among us (in hyphenated form, sometimes) is because they value that culture.
So when he says "these are polytheist religious groups", I counter that a polytheist religious group includes culture as well by definition, and a re-creation of the ancient mindset that accompanied it, because ancient culture and religion were inseparable. And, need I say, orthopraxic.
Host culture to subculture
So in that respect, I can see how someone might object that, now that there's an option for atheist pagans to choose, they're not doing so. They're sticking around in the Heathen/Pagan subcultures, and in some cases, trying to change them. I get that, and it's the "trying to change them" aspect that I specifically disagree with. If an atheist Pagan or Heathen does remain within one of those subcultures, it must be with the implicit understanding that the subculture is as it is, and isn't there for the atheist to turn it into something it's not. If that's their goal (and I think it is, at least for a small but vocal number of them), then they really should abandon ship and create something of their own, and stop trying to change what the rest of us have, and believe.
So on that point at least, I think Sarenth and I can agree.